Curse

AndrewSX · Sep 09, 2011, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Tbh i'd find kinda odd do not have al 200 att points before start WoC (which means finish at least Fc), but w/e.

Missing HB · Sep 09, 2011, 07:17 AM // 07:17

So, my analysis of this flux change: bad way to fix stuff without thinking of consequences upon other formats( but well, what did you expect, it's GvG or nothing...)..

Basically :
- invokers got a buff considering they receive more healings, and having more heals won't really help opponents to save such a spike
- Koth 1v1 is now really a free win for blue team
- RA is once again favorising teams with monks
- GvG fights are going to last much longer... and in fact it doesn't change anything for match ups such as trip derv vs balance.... Fight is going to last 2mn longer and the pressure spam is going to win anyway..

This flux is just not good although it could have been better... it's as if we had an unkillable Fertile spirit on the field... and we all know what kind of build usually wins on that...

Milennin · Sep 09, 2011, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Ughh... this makes my Dervish play slower.=/ I was really enjoying the fast paced style of the Dervish. Having to wait until Vow of Strength is cast till being able to use another flash enchantment seems to take ages.=/

urania · Sep 09, 2011, 09:15 AM // 09:15

is the heal buff not working on pets intentional?

Thock · Sep 09, 2011, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

is the heal buff not working on pets intentional?

Flux only affects player characters, it does not affect npcs or pets.

Missing HB · Sep 09, 2011, 04:28 PM // 16:28

It would be nice if we had some feedback about the reasons of implementing those kind of flux in my opinion

Apok · Sep 09, 2011, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

It would be nice if we had some feedback about the reasons of implementing those kind of flux in my opinion

Just 'Cause.

LifeInfusion · Sep 09, 2011, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

So, my analysis of this flux change: bad way to fix stuff without thinking of consequences upon other formats( but well, what did you expect, it's GvG or nothing...)..

Basically :
- invokers got a buff considering they receive more healings, and having more heals won't really help opponents to save such a spike

Yeh that was probably an unintended side effect (buffing Aura of Restoration = stupid heals from Invoke/ Mind Blast+Rodgort's ) but at the same time, WoH/Spirit Bond/Infuse do more (SB unless there's Enchantment shatters)

I'm surprised people aren't running Aura of Faith (not that many conditions from eles worth pulling besides blind/weakness... so 2 copies of Draw is probably good enough), but I guess given the recharge it's not that viable if there's fast target switching from Eles.

I kind of want to see Zealous Benediction+Gift of Health make a comeback so it's not just WoH. It's unlikely though, if you spec into Tactics, because of the 8-10 healing prayers investment and the insanity of WoH heals.

ErrantVenture · Sep 09, 2011, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

I'm surprised people aren't running Aura of Faith (not that many conditions from eles worth pulling besides blind/weakness... so 2 copies of Draw is probably good enough), but I guess given the recharge it's not that viable if there's fast target switching from Eles.

There's a pretty significant chunk of GvG prots running AoF + mend ailment. See: http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Mo/any_GvG_AoF_Prot

Killed u man · Sep 09, 2011, 06:38 PM // 18:38

I think the better question would be why GvG'ers still haven't figured out Soul Twisting +Shelter/Union is one of the best counters against Invoke.

Throw in Brutal Weapon or some other utility shit (the bar's got 10 spare attribute points -So an actual 10 spread in an attribute-), as the bar has got 4-5 free skills slots AND a free secondary, and you shouldn't lose a single fight to Invokespike. (Or the Rt/P variant)

I'm not agreeing with this month's flux (Or with Invoke) but I'm tired of everyone here, and on QQ, crying about Invoke. They're running a build designed around 8v8, either you stop trying to 8v8 them with an inferior build and you split or you run a superiour build and 8v8 them.

The fact is that Invoke spike is a gimmick, just like ritspike and bspike were gimmicks back then. (And I know a thing or 2 about those builds) Fact is that people back then didn't even have the option to build wars, yet they managed to deal with it. (And with "they" I mean all the good players who left, as the ones who couldn't deal with it are the current top 50 further proving my point)

Invokespike is buffed, but physical pressure is buffed even more. Nothing, but absolutely nothing is stopping all these guilds from running trip warriors, a ranger and a ST rit (with brutal for trololol damage) to counter these Invoke spikes.

TL;DR:

People are using this Flux as a scapegoat for not being able to deal with Invokespike. The latter on it's own is already a result of the severely limited game knowledge current "top" GvG players have, and as such you could state that this flux only magnifies the incompetence of the current top tier GvG (and to certain extend HA) community.

ErrantVenture · Sep 09, 2011, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I think the better question would be why GvG'ers still haven't figured out Soul Twisting +Shelter/Union is one of the best counters against Invoke.

Throw in Brutal Weapon or some other utility shit (the bar's got 10 spare attribute points -So an actual 10 spread in an attribute-), as the bar has got 4-5 free skills slots AND a free secondary, and you shouldn't lose a single fight to Invokespike. (Or the Rt/P variant)

I'm not agreeing with this month's flux (Or with Invoke) but I'm tired of everyone here, and on QQ, crying about Invoke. They're running a build designed around 8v8, either you stop trying to 8v8 them with an inferior build and you split or you run a superiour build and 8v8 them.

The fact is that Invoke spike is a gimmick, just like ritspike and bspike were gimmicks back then. (And I know a thing or 2 about those builds) Fact is that people back then didn't even have the option to build wars, yet they managed to deal with it. (And with "they" I mean all the good players who left, as the ones who couldn't deal with it are the current top 50 further proving my point)

Invokespike is buffed, but physical pressure is buffed even more. Nothing, but absolutely nothing is stopping all these guilds from running trip warriors, a ranger and a ST rit (with brutal for trololol damage) to counter these Invoke spikes.

TL;DR:

People are using this Flux as a scapegoat for not being able to deal with Invokespike. The latter on it's own is already a result of the severely limited game knowledge current "top" GvG players have, and as such you could state that this flux only magnifies the incompetence of the current top tier GvG (and to certain extend HA) community.

People have run ST + shelter/union on flaggers in the past. The problem is it doesn't work well (especially on a stand rit). Rangers shit on a stand rit trying to constantly cast spirits and an invoke ele or a dervish can power down spirits real easy. It's a great idea in theory but (from the few times I've seen it run by top guilds on obs mode) but it just doesn't work out in practice.

Also: Very few people are running a true invoke spike. The main builds which are very overpowered are split (hammer or derv, sin, split fire, split air, water, backline) and derv/invoke pressure (two dervs, 1-2 air, 0-1 fire, 1 water, backline). Both of these setups are very versatile with MASSIVE stand damage and very strong ability to counter split with an offensive ele + flagger.

ruk1a · Sep 09, 2011, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

It would be nice if we had some feedback about the reasons of implementing those kind of flux in my opinion

Because the 2 people on the live team right now want to keep pvp fresh (lol) but obviously aren't testing any of the fluxes they put out which in turn actually gives us something to do I guess, which is test their shitty fluxes until they get nerfed/buffed whatever. I don't really mind them.. but they are retarded imo.

Xenomortis · Sep 09, 2011, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Two skills, one of which being your elite and 5 seconds of casting time doesn't seem like a particularly efficient way of stopping Invoke spike; not when the spirit only reduces 7 or 8 hits before dying, especially when almost everything will trigger the reduction from Shelter.

Crom The Pale · Sep 09, 2011, 09:40 PM // 21:40

So glad they had the Fort Aspenwood weekend before this update or the Luxons would have never one a single match!

Killed u man · Sep 09, 2011, 09:53 PM // 21:53

The ST rit offers reasonable defence at stand against non-invoke teams aswell. (Shelter is just too good nowadays)

Also, I don't think they've fixed the ST interrupt glitch, so interrupts against a ST are pretty useless. On top of that, if you're going to argue they'll shut your ST down, I'm going to argue they'll have to overextend hard because spirit range is rediculous, and skills such as Brutal synergize perfectly with the "poop your spirits all the way in the back" playstyle from rits. You could essentially fill the intire bar with longlasting trigger-and-forget spells.

If you have a ST rit, he's going to defend hard against any form of spike or Invoke abuse. Even against most split characters, you could mod the bar so he holds his own. Displacement means not a single physical can touch you, whereas Union and Shelter will protect you (and your base) against MB and other split bars.

I'm not making a statement that a ST midline rit is the end-to-all-means, I'm just saying that all these people QQ'ing about Invokespike (or ANY spike variant 2011, including dervs, burning arrow, ...) should try to use the game to their advantage just like the spike team they're facing is doing.

I'm not going to make any further claims as to the credibility of this ST midline rit because it should be pretty obvious. It's the best spike counter GW has ever known (with the exception of "Incomming!" NF release), it's essentially permanent (3 Shelters per 15 seconds, sup) and it has more than enough open slots (and attribute points) to mold it into almost every teambuild. (Including balanced, spike and hexway teambuilds)

Elnino · Sep 09, 2011, 11:12 PM // 23:12

So, the old flash enchantment bug is back (movement stopped when object is targetted).

Missing HB · Sep 10, 2011, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErrantVenture

Also: Very few people are running a true invoke spike. The main builds which are very overpowered are split (hammer or derv, sin, split fire, split air, water, backline) and derv/invoke pressure (two dervs, 1-2 air, 0-1 fire, 1 water, backline). Both of these setups are very versatile with MASSIVE stand damage and very strong ability to counter split with an offensive ele + flagger.

Exactly... sure ST rit is good, but you know, you need to be sure that your opponent is running a true invoke spike...

Taking it on ladder or even on AT while u got no idea what opponent is going to run is tough..
My only problem is that most players who play invokespike just smurf on low rating and burning isle... and it's not that easy...